The Captain of the Guards

LindaElane
Lady of Starfall
(08-23-02):

But here is a summary:

The chapter read was from the Prologue. The Prologue will be seven chapters long and will not feature any certain POV character. Nor are the Prologue POV characters necessarily doomed.

The chapter that GRRM read today was from the point of view of the Captain of the Guard for Doran Martell. Set in Dorne, near Sunspear and at Sunspear itself. It contained much information on three of the Sand Snakes. We meet Obara, Nym and Tyene. We also meet Myrcella and Aerys Oakheart in Dorne.

We hear specific plots in regard to revenge for Oberyn's death. The people cry for vengance. There are conflicts among family members who want vengance.

It will take a few hours to type up but it is good stuff - very well written, just as well written as the previous books, or better. No skimping on quality here.

I am going to let you go for now. I am going back to the Con. I will type up my notes late at night this evening - or early this morning.

They are quite detailed

LindaElane
Lady of Starfall
(08-24-02):

"Bloodoranges well past ripe...". The imagery is from a setting near Sunspear. "The Prince" is seated in a special chair which "The Captain" has made for him, and the smell of bloodoranges fills the air. We learn that we are seeing Prince Doran Martell, and his Captain of the Guard, Areo Hotah. The setting is one of heat, within a palace whose tiles run into yellow, orange and copper hues. Outside the sounds of children playing are constantly heard. We learn many are the sons and daughters of great lords of Dorne.

The drumbeat of hooves on the marble outside is heard. Ariel knows Obarra, eldest of the sandsnakes, will be arriving, for he knows her stride. It is said she can master any Dornish horse, or any Dornish man. She is the eldest of the Sand Snakes, a big boned woman of about 30. A coiled whip is carried on her hip and a copper shield is slung on her back.

Ariel tries to block the way to Obara but she will not have it. "Does he know my father is dead?", she asks of Maester Caleotte, also present. It seems Prince Doran is aware. "What will Doran do, what will his brother do to avenge our murdered Prince?" , she asks.

The old Maester, no more than five feet tall, protests that Prince Doran cannot be disturbed. But Obara must eventually see him. Elaria is bringing home the body of the Red Viper. The people are crying out in the streets. Some Dornish mourning customs are described, for instance, prostitutes not charging for sex.

At last Doran sees Obara. He is a man ot two and fifty. His symptoms of gout are described graphically. He tells Obara "by law, that is no murder" when she says that Oberyn was felled in a duel. Doran is taking a more conservative approach to the manner of reaction appropriate to Oberyn's death. He feels silence is a prince's friend, that words are like arrows, once unleashed, you cannot take them back.

We learn that Obara wants to march on Old Town, and that Doran has written to Tywin. (GRRM mentioned earlier that some chapters in this book take place before the final chapter of ASOS.)

Doran assures Obara that Tywin will deliver the head of Gregor, Oberyn's killer. This does not content Obara. She wishes to pulls out the bowels of the killer and search for gold, whilst singing "The Rains of Castamere".

Childhood descriptions are brought in. We hear something of the rough childhood play of the Red Viper. We also hear of Obara's childhood. Her mother was a prostitute. When Oberyn went to her after Obara's birth she taunted that she had had 1000 men and that he could not tell Obara was his. Obara picks up a spear and acts militantly in some fashion. "I told you she was mine", said Oberyn to Obara's mother. And Obara went to live with the Red Viper.

LindaElane
Lady of Starfall
(08-24-02):

I should mention that at some point it becomes clear that Areo is from the free city of Norvos. I note that Doran's wife is also from there. Areo is even in the appendix of AGOT....can you believe he has been in the works all this long and now we are hearing his story? We hear some description of Norvos and of Areo's childhood. Areo was the youngest of his family, a small boy when he was sold to the bearded priests. He was branded in the form of an ax at some point, possibly after beginning military training. At the ceremony his mother is present, and bears are dancing down the middle of the steps of an edifice. He eventually swore to serve, obey and protect, though the religion of the Seven was always strange to him.

Obara believes that the word must be war at Sunspear. After consultation with the Maester and Areo, Doran says that though it is not wise, it is necessary that he return to Sunspear. The debate is that enemies should not know how feeble Doran is. Yet he says that he must be seen, for someone must pour oil on the boiling waters.

There is discussion of Ser Aerys Oakheart, escort of Myrcella Baratheon. "You know he sends letters to his Queen", Obara tells Doran. Areo has somehow foresee that Aerys will die, he feels sorry for the man. I am a bit sketchy on detail here.

Sun sets and the children are no longer heard outside as they have gone into their rooms. Prince Doran has a light meal of purple olives, flat bread and chickpea paste. (That's right...we get many more descriptions of luscious food.) Then he retires to his quarters, a great room of cool linen sheets in a chamber beside the sea.

Dawn comes and the smallest cedarwood litter is chosen to carry Prince Doran, along with 20 spears and Captain of the Guard, Areo, who is always at his left hand. We get a description of Aero's armor. It is copper colored in bits, has netting, and designed so that a man can stand it in the heat of Dorne (sketchy on further detail). The group feasts on a breakfast of bloodoranges, quail eggs and sliced ham with fiery peppers.

The group finally departs at midday, following a red road that runs beside the sea. It is a spare red-brown land of stone and sand with twisted trees.

On a sand dune ahead, the second Sand Snake appears, riding a golden mare. She is Nymeria, Princess Nym. She is 25 with straight black hair which comes to a widows point like her father's. She possesses all the beauty Obara lacked. Her mother was royalty of old Volantis (?) while Obara's was an Old Town whore.

She hails the group with a 'Well met" and joins them as if the meeting had occurred by chance. Asking if she may travel with them, Doran tells her that she may be a better companion than some, for gout and grief make poor companions on the road.

Gregor is discussed. Nym tells her Uncle that Gregor admitted his guilt, crying it aloud for all to hear. Nym is told they have been promised the head of Gregor. But she says she believes Tywin intends to pay them in 'their own coin".

Princess Nym says that she had it from sweet Ser Daimon, who was a Fowler, that Gregor will die through the poison. She reminds her Uncle of the Fowler words - "Let me Soar".

"Let ME Soar", she asks. In other words, she wants to be able to revenge her father properly. Her Uncle indulges this request and asks what she needs. "I need Tyene" she says, referring to a sister Sand Snake. She believes Obara is too hard and will be balanced by Tyene's "gentleness". "Gentleness" is definitely in quotes.

Nym believes one death by poison is not enough. But she will be happy with four death - the golden twins, the old Lion and the Little King.

LindaElane
Lady of Starfall
(08-24-02):

It is pointed out that 'the boy' is a bastard, if Stannis can be believed, Doran tells Nym.

"Only royal blood can avenge my father's murder" says Nym. This opens the possibility that Tommen will be spared after all.

Doran advises Nym not to provoke Tywin unduly, but she replies " My sisters and I will not wait seven and ten years for our vengance".

At last the party approaches Sunspear, fantastically orange-red-brown. The spear tower is 150 feet tall. Nearly as tall is the tower of the Sun. A third formation is described (sketchy on detail here). Here the air smelled of dust and smoke. Houses were built of mud and straw. Along the massive walls were found mudbrick shops and windowless houses.

It was not much compared to Tyrosh or Mir or Great Norvas. Yet, it was the nearest thing to a true city these Dornish had . (Remember: Areo POV, is from Norvas.)

The party begins to approach the city walls. "Make way for the Prince of Dorne" is called out.

"The Prince is dead", some cry. "To spears", many cry. Cries of "Vengance for the Viper" ring in the air. "War, war...to the spears" is heard. There is no answer from within the silken litter.

At last the party enters Sunspear, the portcullis closing behind them. Princess Arianne, heir to the throne, is waiting to great her father. Doran's party enters the palace to find Arianne, the Castallan, the Maester, Myrcella and Aerys Oakheart waiting for them.

Arianne tries flattery and says "Father, Sunspear rejoices at your return". Doran simply replies, with irony "Yes, I heard the joy."

A feast is prepared. Doran says that he does not see Tyene. He is told that she begs a private word for him and is waiting in the throne room.

The third Sand Snake is wearing a clinging gown with blue samite sleeves and Myrish lace. She has blonde hair and blue eyes. But there is something about the eyes. Something (piercing? detail sketchy here). Doran realizes that all of the Red Viper's daughters have their father's eyes, no matter the color.

Tyene's mother had been a Septa. She seems quite gentle, asking her uncle if there is anything she can do to ease his pain. She has made a tapestry which shows Oberyn, and she presents it to Doran. "I am not likely to forget your father", he says.

Tyene speaks of Gregor. She says that they have prayed so long for his death. She assures her Uncle that Gregor will pray for it too, for she knows the poison her father used.

It is discussed that Dornishmen fight best at home. The Lannister's and Tyrell's will be drawn into Dorne and then ambushed.

Tyene speaks of Myrcella and says they have the Imp to thank for her, and that she envies her long blonde curls. Trystane and Myrcella are so innocent she remarks. Yet it is understood that under Dornish custom, Myrcella is heir to the Iron Throne, rightful Queen of the Andals. She is the eldest, the throne passes to the eldest regardless of gender in Dorne.

Doran asks to think on it. Tyrene opines that he thinks too much and that her father thought too little.

Tyene asks for her Uncles blessing and kneels to be touched on the head. She likely touches his hand at some point for after she has left, Doran and Maester C. examine his hand to make sure the skin is not broken for this would indicate poison. He appears to be unharmed.

Doran calls for milk of the poppy, something he refused before for his pain He then asks Areo how many of the guards are truly loyal to him. Areo says that they are Dornishmen and they will do as he commands.

Prince Doran tells Captain Areo that he has a special task for a few of them. It must be quick, quiet and bloodless. "Take the Sand Snakes into custody", he says. "Confine them in cells at the top of the Spear Tower" All eight are to be taken into custody.

Doran is told that the common folk will howl in the streets. But he does not care. He says that he will let Tywin see what a friend he has in Doran.

Ran
King o' the Board
(01-31-03):

Amazing. Woo. If more details about Dornish customs, clothing, or architecture can be dug up, I'd be interested. ;) It sounded like at least one or two more mourning customs were mentioned besides the free prostitutes and the lamenting in the streets.

I don't think Doran is Tywin's friend. I think he's decided to act and lure the Lannisters into . . . something, anyways. The way those words are put suggest that he'll offer a hand while keeping a knife behind his back.

The Sand Snakes sound interesting, indeed. Princess Nym . . . interesting. Because of her mother's old royalty, or all of the Sand Snakes considered princesses, or simply because she looks so much like a princess with her beauty? Interesting indeed. And they're an interesting lot, of course.

Ser Daemon a Fowler? Ser Daemon Sand was Bastard of Godsgrace, his father an Allyrion. I suppose that his mother could have been a Fowler, so that Nym could make her point about their words. And now we have their words, so we'll have to add them on to their shield. Cool.

It's Areo, BTW. Areo Hotah. Bearded priests must have been part of the theocracy of Norvos, which has a unique religion. They seem to make use of slave-soldiers. It's odd to call Hotah a "sellsword" if, technically, he was a slave who came as part of Princess Mellario's dowry. But I suppose they could have "freed" him, in accordance with Westerosi law and custom, and he draws a salary. He seems quite trusted by Doran, quite loyal.

I wouldn't mind more recollections on his armor. The "netting" in particular.

When speaking with Tyene, you write that they discuss talking about Dorne fighting best on home ground and that "they" will draw the Lannisters and Tyrells in and ambush them. Do "they" really plan this, or was Tyene or someone else discussing how such a plan would be superior than marching on Old Town (as Obara wanted)?

Obara . . . there may be a very small continuity problem there if she was supposed to have been concieved when Oberyn passed through Old Town with his sister and mother. Tyrion is about 26, so Obara would have to be 25-26. But she could just look thirty years old, I suppose. Also makes the timing with Princess Nym rather tight -- she's 25, so she'd be a bare year younger. Oberyn went to Volantis rather swiftly.

The other possibility, of course, is that Obara was concieved when Oberyn was 12 or so. ;) They could have been at Old Town for some reason back then -- a tournament or some such -- and Oberyn strikes me as a precocious lad. And then, with the berths empty of Lannisters, they could have stopped in Old Town and for some reason or other Oberyn picked up his 2 year old daughter and carried her off to Sunspear. I wonder what the Princess his mother would have said about that?

Notably, the Sand Snakes do seem to have been listed in birth order in ASoS. Obara, Nymeria, and Tyene are the three eldest, it appears.

It's a shame that Ser Arys Oakheart will have to meet with some accident. He's a nice fellow. Perhaps Doran will find some other way...

Sunspear, another city of Westeros. I figured. Very cool. It has a very different feel to it from KL, certainly. Though I always imagined it as quite whitewashed, in Mediterranean fashion. But browns and reds and oranges works quite well, and fits some Dornish architecture.

I do hope Arianne isn't insipid. Her first showing was somewhat poor.

LindaElane
Lady of Starfall
(08-24-02):

Denstorebog and others who have wondered: It is possible that GRRM said "about" in front of any of the numbers he used, because my memory is not exact. He could have said "about" 7 chapters or "about" 200 pages. On the later, however, I get the feeling it is pretty close to 200 pages. 
I am not sure why the assumption is out there that AFFC will run 1000 pages or so. Was that a spoiler somewhere? I honestly get the feeling this may be a shorter book. AGOT length or (my *opinion* I don't know) possibly a little shorter.

Ran, I thought your response was amazing. It was as if you were there. You have spotted the places where my details were sketchy (even where I did not note it) and wondered about things that I thought I was tipped off to wonder about only by tone of voice and hearing all the words. I'll respond in detail.

Amazing. Woo. If more details about Dornish customs, clothing, or architecture can be dug up, I'd be interested.

I will try, and hopefully we will hear from Danlo. He has read up to pg 120 of AGOT so far, so much of this was new to him.
 
It sounded like at least one or two more mourning customs were mentioned besides the free prostitutes and the lamenting in the streets.

I believe you are exactly right about that. Unfortunately, I was so excited about the reading, I cannot remember what anyone else in the room looked like to ask them. But about a quarter of the convention was in the room. So I could ask folks at random if there were in the reading and ask them if they recall more about this. And again, Danlo may well recall more.
 
I don't think Doran is Tywin's friend. I think he's decided to act and lure the Lannisters into . . . something, anyways. The way those words are put suggest that he'll offer a hand while keeping a knife behind his back.

You know, I thought that only came through if you heard tone of voice and all the words. Yes, I wonder about Doran's intentions too. However, something that may not have come through from my notes, but I know it is so is this. Doran is much more gentle, wise and good intentioned than the SS. He is probably more interested in the good of Dorne than in vengance. So he will be friend/not friend to Tywin or whomever is regent based upon that, I believe.

I do think Doran will initially try to deal with the Regent just as he dealt with Tywin. The Regent's reaction will be quite interesting.

The Sand Snakes sound interesting, indeed. Princess Nym . . . interesting. Because of her mother's old royalty, or all of the Sand Snakes considered princesses, or simply because she looks so much like a princess with her beauty? Interesting indeed. And they're an interesting lot, of course.

I believe all the Sand Snakes were counted Princesses.

Ser Daemon a Fowler? Ser Daemon Sand was Bastard of Godsgrace, his father an Allyrion. I suppose that his mother could have been a Fowler, so that Nym could make her point about their words. And now we have their words, so we'll have to add them on to their shield. Cool.

My notes were not great at that point but I am almost certain GRRM said there was some type of relation between Ser Daemon and the Fowlers. Its possible they just got mentioned in a paragraph in which Ser Daemon was also mentioned, however.

It's Areo, BTW. Areo Hotah.

I found myself correcting typos last night as I occasionally wrote Aero. Hopefully I put Areo, most of the time...

Bearded priests must have been part of the theocracy of Norvos, which has a unique religion. They seem to make use of slave-soldiers. It's odd to call Hotah a "sellsword" if, technically, he was a slave who came as part of Princess Mellario's dowry. But I suppose they could have "freed" him, in accordance with Westerosi law and custom, and he draws a salary. He seems quite trusted by Doran, quite loyal.

Sell-sword? Was that in one of the books? I don't recall GRRM saying it last evening.

I wouldn't mind more recollections on his armor. The "netting" in particular.

I will try to ask about details on armor and mourning customs.

When speaking with Tyene, you write that they discuss talking about Dorne fighting best on home ground and that "they" will draw the Lannisters and Tyrells in and ambush them. Do "they" really plan this, or was Tyene or someone else discussing how such a plan would be superior than marching on Old Town (as Obara wanted).

Unfortunately, I only recall that it was discussed. I don't recall which party was advocating the ambush plan.

Obara . . . there may be a very small continuity problem there if she was supposed to have been concieved when Oberyn passed through Old Town with his sister and mother. Tyrion is about 26, so Obara would have to be 25-26. But she could just look thirty years old, I suppose. Also makes the timing with Princess Nym rather tight -- she's 25, so she'd be a bare year younger. Oberyn went to Volantis rather swiftly.

Yes, one of the few things not to make it into my report from my notes, but you must have known from elsewhere, Ran, was that Oberyn was 10 years younger than Doran. It's possible they said "about" 30 on Obara. However, I get the feeling it's more like around 29 if that is the case. I would go with the theory you mentioned of her being conceived when her Father was 12-13, based on what I know.
 
Notably, the Sand Snakes do seem to have been listed in birth order in ASoS. Obara, Nymeria, and Tyene are the three eldest, it appears.

Interesting. I thought I could infer this as GRRM was reading, but I did not say it, as I could not be sure.

It's a shame that Ser Arys Oakheart will have to meet with some accident. He's a nice fellow. Perhaps Doran will find some other way...

This morning I remembered Prince Doran saying how sorry he felt for the White Knight. Yes, it's possible he will not have to die.
 
Sunspear, another city of Westeros. I figured. Very cool. It has a very different feel to it from KL, certainly. Though I always imagined it as quite whitewashed, in Mediterranean fashion. But browns and reds and oranges works quite well, and fits some Dornish architecture.

I had pictures of Morocco that I have seen in mind as GRRM read last evening.

I do hope Arianne isn't insipid. Her first showing was somewhat poor.

There may have been more about her than my notes reflected. The scene with the people crying out for vengence caught my attention and I was catching up on my notes from that scene as Doran first greeted Arianne.

I did get the impression that the entire Prologue will be set in Dorne, but I could be wrong, it's just an impression.

Asha, that is an interesting thought about the locking up of the SS as related to the five year gap. I think keeping them locked up for five years may indeed have been something GRRM considered. However, he appears to have dismissed that idea, perhaps as something he and/or the reader's would not be the most comfortable with.

I now recall that there was specific discussion of locking up the 20 year old SS, with a slight description of her. Also, Areo asked if even the youngest were to be locked up. Doran told him that they would not be a danger in themselves, but since others could use them for their own ends, they had best be locked up too.

Oh, and here is something I forgot to put in my original account. GRRM was asked how many books there will be. He replied "I''m going to say how many I think and she (Parris) will hold up her fingers on how many she thinks.". He said "six" and Parris held up seven fingers. You had to be there! It was hilarious. They got to do this about three times. Btw, I think agree with Parris. And I can tell you as I did a year ago, that when I was in Portland, GRRM acknowledged the possibility of seven books, though he thinks it will be six. He said he does not know what the title of book seven will be if there is one. Parris contributed "I get to name it". Joking with him. Very comfortable atmosphere.

Ran
King o' the Board
(08-24-02):

It's in the appendix, that Areo Hotah, captain of the guards, is a Norvosi sellsword. It's interesting that it isn't mentioned. It may be that calling him a sellsword is a mere formality, and that in truth he is bound much more closely to them. A 20 year old ... I'm guessing this is either Sarella Sand or Elia Sand. Sarella is listed after Tyene, and Elia after Sarella. Or perhaps Tyene is the 20 year old?

LindaElane
Lady of Starfall
(08-24-02):

There was a line about Myrcella being rightful queen, as I said. Then someone said that was only under Dornish law. Then, someone said "Yes, but she is in Dorne".

I was thinking they wanted to make Myrcella queen even before I remembered that line. But of course they want to use her and have Trystayne, Doran's youngest son, who is her financee? Well...to have whoever her fiance is be the power behind the throne.

I now think that they might even like to have the ruling seat moved from King's Landing to Sunspear. This would be after the death of most of Myrcella's immediate family.

But I am unsure as to whether it is just the SS or also Doran who would hope to use Myrcella.

Bastard is no fly in the ointment as a ruler of Dorne can be both bastard and female, I think. Though Westerosi laws forbid it overall. But all they need to is deny Myrcella's bastard status.

I was rather surprised at the line about bastard blood not sufficing, as I understood the Dornish did not make a great deal about bastard/nonbastard status.

Ran, I don't think the structure was given a name.

Maia, Doran's wife was not mentioned in the chapter.

Oh, my room is right here at the convention hotel. That is why I am able to come on this thread so often. I just check whenever I go back to my room for something.

The Soiled Knight

Ran
King o' the Board
(01-31-03):



Background: Ser Arys Oakheart was the knight of the KG sent to Dorne as Myrcella's guard. Doran Martell is the lord of Dorne and Arianne is his eldest daughter, and now his heir after Oberyn's death.

Ser Arys Oakheart is wandering through the shadow city of Sunspear at least two weeks after the Areo chapter because a fortnight past a merchant was murdered simply because he was from King's Landing.

He's going incognito, in Dornish robes and with a hood up, but he has his sword with him. It's evening, and cold. He thinks about how the Oakhearts were always staunch foes of the Dornishmen. There were tapestries at Old Oak: Lord Edgerran the Open-handed, the heads of a hundred Dornishmen piled at his feet; the Three Leaves in the Prince's Pass stabbed by spears as Alester blew his warhorn with his dying breath; Ser Olyvar the Green Oak in his white cloak dying beside the Young Dragon.

The shadow city is basically the city around the castle of Sunspear. It's so hot during the day, the streets are mostly deserted, but as evening falls they come alive. Things were pretty bad when the news of the Red Viper's death arrived but they grew a little quieter when Doran put the Sand Snakes in tower cells.

Beneath the second of the Winding Walls, a pillow girl calls down to him wearing only jewels and oil. He thinks of Baelor the Blessed, who fasted to the point of fainting to tame his lusts, and he wonders if he has to do the same.

He hears finger drums beating the quick rhythm of a spear dance. Dornishmen eat grilled snake meat with sauces that can bring tears to the eyes. Arys has heard that the best sauces are made with a drop of venom, as well as mustard seeds and dragon peppers. Myrcella loves the spicy food, as well as a new game that's become popular in Dorne called cyvasse which arrived at the Planky Town on a ship from Volantis. She's getting along very well with Prince Trystane.

Arys thinks back to his first private meeting with Doran -- it seems to have happened only earlier in the day. Doran feels there's danger to Myrcella, but Arys says that no one would hurt a little girl. Doran reminds him that Elia had a little girl who was a princess as well. He says most of the smallfolk are calling for war, and half the lords agree with them.

Doran reveals that he wants to send Myrcella and Arys to the Water Gardens. His ancestor Prince Maron raised the Gardens as a gift to his Targaryen bride. There are lots of children there, both of high and gentle birth. There's a catch, though: Doran doesn't want Arys to tell anyone about the move. For safety, he says, and Arys accepts it.

Then he comes back to the present and finds the place he's seeking. He enters but no one is there. He calls for his lady . . . and she slips out from behind the door. She's wearing a snake bracelet thing and nothing else. Steamy sex follows. After all's said and done, he's got some torn clothing and some fresh bleeding scratches down his back. He feels very badly, very guilty about his shame and his failure to hold to his vows. He insists on leaving and she wonders if he's going to another woman. She offers to fight her for him, bare-breasted, knife to knife. Unless it's a Sand Snake, of course, because they can share then -- she loves her cousins.

It's Arianne.

She teases him about Myrcella, wondering if he loves his other princess more and offers to play the innocent. He thinks that she can't help herself -- in the Reach they say that Dornishmen are hot tempered and the women are wild and wanton because their peppers and spices heat the blood.

He does tell her that he's leaving for the Water Gardens in four days. Interesting detail here: Arys has not had a woman in ten years or more, since he donned the white cloak. (Wonder who his predecessor was, and what happened to him?)

Arianne says the Bastard of Godsgrace deflowered her when they were both 14. Doran learned about it but did nothing, which he's very good at doing. He calls it _thinking_, she says. Then he insists on leaving, and on ending the relationship, but she doesn't want him to go. She wonders if he thinks he's the only KG to love a woman.

He thinks about that. Boros Blount visited the Street of Silks often. Preston Greenfield visited a certain draper's house whenever the draper was away. Ser Terrence Toyne was found sleeping with a king's mistress. He swore it was for love, but it cost him his life and hers, and brought the fall of his House and the death of "the noblest knight who ever lived", Prince Aemon the Dragonknight.

She asks about Lucamore the Lusty, who had 3 wives and an obscene number of kids. There's a funny song about him, but he responds that it's not funny. When Ser Lucamore Strong's lies were discovered, he was castrated by his Sworn Brothers and Jaehaerys I sent him to the Wall. She asks then about the Dragonknight, who took his queen to bed and had a child with her. But Arys says he doesn't believe that -- that was a tale put about by his brother when he wanted to put aside his son Daeron in favor of his bastard. He wasn't called Unworthy without cause. (Hah!)

She talks of Prince Lewyn. He agrees he was a great knight. Then she drops the bomb: he had a paramour. Toyne's treason and Lucamore's deceits can be found in the White Book, but nothing is said of Lewyn having a paramour. She's still alive, according to Arianne.

Then she swoops in on how Myrcella is braver, smarter, more confident, and more courteous than Tommen. He sort of admits that she isn't wrong.

Viserys I intended his daughter Rhaenyra to rule after him! But the Lord Commander, Ser Criston Cole, Criston the Kingmaker, thought otherwise. He convinced Prince Aegon to seize the throne as the king lay dying. Why isn't clear, Arys thinks: maybe ambition, maybe because he was nobly defending ancient Andal custom, or maybe he was getting revenge on the princess who some whispered had been his lover before he took the white and who had spurned him. He paid for his treason, anyhow.

Arianne argues about why Doran wants to send Myrcella away -- not to protect her from assassins, but from those who would put a crown on her head. She says that it'll be a prison, Areo Hotah will see to it. Arys is uneasy about Hotah, who keeps his great axe beside him even when he sleeps. She wants him to support Myrcella for queen, and says she'd not see Tommen harmed.

She says Myrcella would let him marry her, maybe even keep his white cloak too. He continues resisting, and she starts to tremble. It's not right for him to make her beg, she says, but he's refusing her when she's in desperate need of a knight to keep her safe. He's slow -- he says her father's guards would protect her, but _they're_ the ones she's afraid of. She thinks she'll be dragged off like the Sand Snakes, whom neither of them have been able to see since they were put in their tower.

He says they were dangerous, but she notes the youngest two are all of 8 and 6. She does say that Tyene and she are of an age, and have no secrets, so she thinks her father might send her into a cell after them for knowing of the plotting.

She says that Doran has always been unhappy that she was born a daughter. He tries to say that Doran left her to rule in Sunspear when he went to the Water Gardens, but she says that Oberyn and the bureaucrats ran everything. Apparently Doran had been retired there for a long time -- she says that Oberyn went to the Gardens twice a fortnight, but she was summoned twice a year.

And now she says that he may get what he wants, because of her brother Quentyn. He was fostered by Lord Anders Yronwood, and took knighthood from him rather than from the Red Viper. Arys says he was told that Quentyn was in the Boneway with Yronwood's host, but she says that her father is hiding the truth that Quentyn is in the Free Cities hiring sellswords.

There's a bit about the dragon biting its tail of the Tolands, which represents time as a circular thing. Maybe the Dance of the Dragons is to be repeated, with Anders as the Kingmaker reborn whispering to Quentyn that men should not kneel to women, especially not a willful one like Arianne.

And Arys buckles.

Arys swears he'll support Myrcella's claim, because she's older and better suited. Then he asks what Arianne will have of him, and she says she wants all and forever, but first ... Myrcella.

The end. Cool stuff. She's completely wrapped Arys around her little finger. He had no chance. My summary doesn't do justice to just how absolutely besotted and under her thumb Arys is. I like him, a lot, but he is pretty weak willed (oh, yeah, I forgot -- he was still ashamed about beating Sansa, and when Tyrion picked him to accompany Myrcella he lit a candle to the Warrior in thanks as it meant escaping Joff.)

I hereby declare that Dornishwomen are the sexiest women in Westeros, as well. I think I'd be weak-willed, too.

Harry the Heir
Council Member
(01-31-03):

Dornishmen eat grilled snake meat with sauces that can bring tears to the eyes. Arys has heard that the best sauces are made with a drop of venom, as well as mustard seeds and dragon peppers.

Well, if this isn't a reference to Santa Fe, I don't know what is. If he's willing to go this far, however, I demand that we get extended descriptions of blue corn snake enchiladas with green chili (that is, green dragon-pepper sauce)! Also, we need a scene where Arys is foolishly conned into eating too spicy sauce and spends the next three days next to his chamber-pot.

There's a bit about the dragon biting its tail of the Tolands, which represents time as a circular thing.

This is an Ouroborous ref, if I'm not mistaken, and I'm pretty sure that one of the things the ouroborous is supposed to symbolize is self-destruction and futility. However, somebody better educated in myth would know better about that.

Arianne Martell

Ran
King o' the Board
(09-01-03):

Lyanna posted:

ok, this is gonna be brief and more people can elaborate... i only slept 4 hours last night and i'm a little fuzzy.

as banditski said before, the "pov" for this chapter is arianne martell, daughter of doran. same woman as from the soiled knight chapter. but she is NOT the new POV. this is just a prologue chapter.

It begins with arianne waiting outside somewhere in a field with some companions: Andrey Dalt of Lemonwood (called Dray), Lady Silver something (called Spotted Silver), Gay Garren (a "green orphan" who was arianne's milk brother) and Ser Gerald Dayne of Starfall called the Black Star, who is also arianne's lover. someone says some thing about gazing into a pool and seeing you're true love's face (someone will probably need to correct me on that :p )and arianne remembers how she used to dream that some handsome scoundrel would kidnap her and take her out and ravish her... definitely another hot dornish woman (yay!) arianne thinks that ser gerald is the handsomest man she's ever seen and is afraid that if arys oakheart finds out that gerald is her lover they would fight to the death. she doesn't know who would win.

we hear some news about fighting in the free cities. the qohori have revolted, throwing down the statue of the black goat (i think). myr, tyrosh and lys are also mentioned, some of them are fighting, someone else will have to elaborate on that. i pay more attention to the sex parts than the free city war parts ;)

arianne is musing about her brother quentin, who is ahead of her in the succession. he was sent away for some reason but she knows that he has been seen nearby disguised as a merchant.

then we find out that mycella has indeed been crowned by the dornish (whether by doran or just arianne did the crowning i am not sure). gerald mentions just killing myrcella, arianne says that arys will defend her with his life, and gerald replies " Daynes have been killing Oakhearts for hundreds (or was it thousands?) of yeats. arianne replies "and Oakhearts have been killing Daynes for just as many."

the see arys approaching with myrcella. it is night time, as it is too hot to ride in the day. arianne's companions bow to her calling her "your grace" and such, and myrcella is confused. "why are they calling me that, arianne?" she asks when she recognizes ariannce. arianne explains that since myrcella is older than tommen (pronounced "tome-in," btw, she is actually the rightful heir to the iron throne. myrcella seems wary but easily convinced.

at one point arys pushes arianne up against a tree and starts fondling her, but she laughs and says "later." her thoughts seem to say that though she likes arys in bed, she finds him rather ponderous and boring.

myrcella asks gerald dayne if he was related to the famous sword of the morning. gerald says he is, and from starfall. arys says "he was a great knight" and gerald says "he had a great SWORD." i think it was at this point where myrella asks is he is the SOTM, or if he uses Dawn, and gerald replies "no, i am of the night, not the morning" (or something).

trystane had wanted to come with arys and myrcella, but he did not in the end. arys and mycella left "stunt doubles" as it were, back at sunspear. myrcella curled her doubles hair herself, a distant lannister cousin. arys' double is sam swyft.

and so they ride all night. they are going to the "green blood," a river where the "green orphans" live. we learn they are not truly orphans, but that their mother is the great river, Mother Rhoyne. they are the blood of the rhoynars. there was mention of a fight with the rhoynes and the targs, and how a king sent his dragon to go eat elephants (lol).

when they dismount, arys says something to arianne about how she needs a veil to cover her face because otherwise her beauty would overwhelm that of the sun., something like that. arianne wonders how long it took him to come up with that compliment. she thinks of ayrs "wit and he were strangers." :p

they see trees called sand beggars, which grow only near water. they know they are close. arianne means to crown myrcella and raise her banners at hellholt. they will follow the green blood to the vaith and then to hellholt.

they come to a village and arianne sees oroh hatah (sp?) she realizes they are caught. oroh says that doran order him and his guard to bring back arianne and mycella safely, but to kill their companions if they do not yield. arys wasnts to fight for "his princess" at first (which one?) but ariannce calms him. she asks oroh, "how did you know?" and he replies, "how else? someone told."

everyone else who is not insane with sleep deprivation can fill in the rest

Queenmaker